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	<title>Comments on: The Ethics of Having Children-Guest Post</title>
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	<link>http://20-forty.com/2008/09/04/the-ethics-of-having-children-guest-post/</link>
	<description>Because love isn&#039;t always 20/20!</description>
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		<title>By: Monique</title>
		<link>http://20-forty.com/2008/09/04/the-ethics-of-having-children-guest-post/comment-page-1/#comment-8301</link>
		<dc:creator>Monique</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 16:47:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://20-forty.com/?p=616#comment-8301</guid>
		<description>Thank you for your eloquent post. My husband and I have been together 12 years and have no plans to have children. We are insulted left and right by people with children, or people who seem to think having children is the only point of being married. I suppose it was, once upon a time, but times have changed. We don&#039;t have the parental urge, and would rather devote our time on this earth to enjoying life with each other as much as possible given other constraints. I am so tired of being polite while rude people ask me impertinent questions about my biological clock, or my baby-crazy sister-in-law rudely insults us, saying that having children would &#039;magically solve&#039; all of our problems. Having school debt and now dealing with unemployment in this economy, having a child seems like a nightmare that would only get worse, and would strip us of any hope of traveling and doing the things we want to do. 

If you love children and want a family, kudos to you--it&#039;s not an easy decision. But please live and let live, and stop bullying the rest of us. It really doesn&#039;t help your case any.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your eloquent post. My husband and I have been together 12 years and have no plans to have children. We are insulted left and right by people with children, or people who seem to think having children is the only point of being married. I suppose it was, once upon a time, but times have changed. We don&#8217;t have the parental urge, and would rather devote our time on this earth to enjoying life with each other as much as possible given other constraints. I am so tired of being polite while rude people ask me impertinent questions about my biological clock, or my baby-crazy sister-in-law rudely insults us, saying that having children would &#8216;magically solve&#8217; all of our problems. Having school debt and now dealing with unemployment in this economy, having a child seems like a nightmare that would only get worse, and would strip us of any hope of traveling and doing the things we want to do. </p>
<p>If you love children and want a family, kudos to you&#8211;it&#8217;s not an easy decision. But please live and let live, and stop bullying the rest of us. It really doesn&#8217;t help your case any.</p>
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		<title>By: Bittersweet</title>
		<link>http://20-forty.com/2008/09/04/the-ethics-of-having-children-guest-post/comment-page-1/#comment-7821</link>
		<dc:creator>Bittersweet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 23:01:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://20-forty.com/?p=616#comment-7821</guid>
		<description>Beautiful!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beautiful!</p>
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		<title>By: Gradimir</title>
		<link>http://20-forty.com/2008/09/04/the-ethics-of-having-children-guest-post/comment-page-1/#comment-4383</link>
		<dc:creator>Gradimir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 05:13:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://20-forty.com/?p=616#comment-4383</guid>
		<description>And the answers to kommety be?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And the answers to kommety be?</p>
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		<title>By: The Weekly: We&#8217;re On IDW Radio Show &#124; Honey and Lance</title>
		<link>http://20-forty.com/2008/09/04/the-ethics-of-having-children-guest-post/comment-page-1/#comment-1226</link>
		<dc:creator>The Weekly: We&#8217;re On IDW Radio Show &#124; Honey and Lance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:28:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://20-forty.com/?p=616#comment-1226</guid>
		<description>[...] on 20-forty, Honey reviewed the ethics of having children in this day and age and argues AGAINST it. This was one of the gutsiest posts I&#8217;ve read in a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] on 20-forty, Honey reviewed the ethics of having children in this day and age and argues AGAINST it. This was one of the gutsiest posts I&#8217;ve read in a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jonsi</title>
		<link>http://20-forty.com/2008/09/04/the-ethics-of-having-children-guest-post/comment-page-1/#comment-1129</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonsi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 07:16:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://20-forty.com/?p=616#comment-1129</guid>
		<description>100% agreed, and this issue has hurt me in my dating life.  I would LOVE to have a kid, but if I do, I&#039;d like to adopt for all of the reasons you mentioned.

We have a rough transition ahead, dealing with climate change and peak oil.  It will be possible to maintain a good standard of living, but society will change.  20 years from now, we&#039;ll only be able to produce 1/2 the conventional oil (there are other hydrocarbons at increased cost) currently in supply.  Demand will go up.  It will be a big deal.   That doesn&#039;t mean we are all going to die, it means there will be a major adjustment in how we live our lives around the world.  Our parents won&#039;t believe that, because they&#039;ve heard it all before, but all big oil companies excepting Exxon acknowledge this fact.  That is only one issue, perhaps the most important, since on average any food item you purchase has already traveled something like 1500-2000 miles.  Big change is coming.

The world will change harshly and rapidly over the next 20-30 years.  This does not mean we will all be impoverished living in slums and there will be catastrophe.  It just means it will change.  The outcome is uncertain.    I bet on a difficult but doable future, and I&#039;d much rather adopt and help someone who doesn&#039;t have a chance than populate my own progeny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>100% agreed, and this issue has hurt me in my dating life.  I would LOVE to have a kid, but if I do, I&#8217;d like to adopt for all of the reasons you mentioned.</p>
<p>We have a rough transition ahead, dealing with climate change and peak oil.  It will be possible to maintain a good standard of living, but society will change.  20 years from now, we&#8217;ll only be able to produce 1/2 the conventional oil (there are other hydrocarbons at increased cost) currently in supply.  Demand will go up.  It will be a big deal.   That doesn&#8217;t mean we are all going to die, it means there will be a major adjustment in how we live our lives around the world.  Our parents won&#8217;t believe that, because they&#8217;ve heard it all before, but all big oil companies excepting Exxon acknowledge this fact.  That is only one issue, perhaps the most important, since on average any food item you purchase has already traveled something like 1500-2000 miles.  Big change is coming.</p>
<p>The world will change harshly and rapidly over the next 20-30 years.  This does not mean we will all be impoverished living in slums and there will be catastrophe.  It just means it will change.  The outcome is uncertain.    I bet on a difficult but doable future, and I&#8217;d much rather adopt and help someone who doesn&#8217;t have a chance than populate my own progeny.</p>
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		<title>By: LaureeO</title>
		<link>http://20-forty.com/2008/09/04/the-ethics-of-having-children-guest-post/comment-page-1/#comment-1108</link>
		<dc:creator>LaureeO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 16:17:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://20-forty.com/?p=616#comment-1108</guid>
		<description>I agree with the comments so far. Your post puts the modern issues of motherhood so eloquently. I feeling the pressure on all sides to make a decision. There is an assumption from my friends and family that there can be only one decision - to have kids. You show the other side of that, and how women can be confident no matter what they decide with critical thinking.

By the way, I agree with you completely about adoption. There are so many children in this world who need love, why shouldn&#039;t we take care of them first. Are we that vain that our kids need to look like us? Not having looked into it, I wonder also if adoption is, or just seems, cost-prohibitive.

Talking with women who are in the midst of making this important decision, I created a six-week series on the subject. It&#039;s over the phone for women to support one another so we each can decide and move on confidently, as you have. If you know women on the fence about being a mother, I hope you&#039;ll recommend my series starting on Sept 22. 

Info:  www.groundedinpotential.com/mommydrama.

LaureeOs last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://laureee.blogspot.com/2008/08/looking-for-change-look-around.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Looking for a Change? Look Around&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the comments so far. Your post puts the modern issues of motherhood so eloquently. I feeling the pressure on all sides to make a decision. There is an assumption from my friends and family that there can be only one decision &#8211; to have kids. You show the other side of that, and how women can be confident no matter what they decide with critical thinking.</p>
<p>By the way, I agree with you completely about adoption. There are so many children in this world who need love, why shouldn&#8217;t we take care of them first. Are we that vain that our kids need to look like us? Not having looked into it, I wonder also if adoption is, or just seems, cost-prohibitive.</p>
<p>Talking with women who are in the midst of making this important decision, I created a six-week series on the subject. It&#8217;s over the phone for women to support one another so we each can decide and move on confidently, as you have. If you know women on the fence about being a mother, I hope you&#8217;ll recommend my series starting on Sept 22. </p>
<p>Info:  <a href="http://www.groundedinpotential.com/mommydrama" rel="nofollow">http://www.groundedinpotential.com/mommydrama</a>.</p>
<p>LaureeOs last blog post..<a href="http://laureee.blogspot.com/2008/08/looking-for-change-look-around.html" rel="nofollow">Looking for a Change? Look Around</a></p>
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		<title>By: lisaq</title>
		<link>http://20-forty.com/2008/09/04/the-ethics-of-having-children-guest-post/comment-page-1/#comment-1054</link>
		<dc:creator>lisaq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 10:20:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://20-forty.com/?p=616#comment-1054</guid>
		<description>Nicely done Honey! I completely agree with you. Having children is a decision which should be left to individual couples to decide...not society. It is a very personal decision. I love your suggestions especially having perspective parents apply to have children. Believe me, as a teacher, I see parents who would have never made it through the application process.

lisaqs last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://20-forty.com/2008/09/05/not-eligible-for-dating%E2%80%A6ever/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Not Eligible for Dating…Ever!&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nicely done Honey! I completely agree with you. Having children is a decision which should be left to individual couples to decide&#8230;not society. It is a very personal decision. I love your suggestions especially having perspective parents apply to have children. Believe me, as a teacher, I see parents who would have never made it through the application process.</p>
<p>lisaqs last blog post..<a href="http://20-forty.com/2008/09/05/not-eligible-for-dating%E2%80%A6ever/" rel="nofollow">Not Eligible for Dating…Ever!</a></p>
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		<title>By: Evasta</title>
		<link>http://20-forty.com/2008/09/04/the-ethics-of-having-children-guest-post/comment-page-1/#comment-1049</link>
		<dc:creator>Evasta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 21:44:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://20-forty.com/?p=616#comment-1049</guid>
		<description>I just wanted to add my support to your eloquently stated position.  I think the only thing I would add is a bit more of a sense of urgency.  

We’ve already exceed global carrying capacity. We are now in “overshoot”. Global population is nearing 7 billion. As you observe, global carrying capacity is about 2 billion. (This assumes some level of social justice and a moderate, low by US standards, standard of living.) We will get to that 2 billion number the hard way (wars, famine, disease, and their accompanying losses of environmental quality, freedom, and social justice) OR the less hard way (immediately and drastically reducing our population voluntarily).     

Yes,all of us, yes everywhere.   Yes a drop in population will cause problems, but none of those problems are as big as the problems, suffering, and environmental collapse that is certain to occur if we don’t.   

No technological / &quot;alternative energy&quot; options have the capacity or can be ramped up fast enough to avoid major global calamity. That isn&#039;t to say we shouldn&#039;t do them. Aggressively shifting to alternative energy is necessary, just not sufficient.

It’s also too late for any “us” vs “them” arguments or any belief that national boundaries will do much to help anyone in the long run. This is a global issue with local and nation-state consequences.  For example, immigration is a consequence of overpopulation, not a cause of it. Likewise global climate change is not impressed by national boundaries.   

One of the key factors in this scenario is also our sense of time. This is a slow motion crash that requires immediate action, a bit like trying to steer a supertanker on a crash course by putting in consistent input over a multi year time frame, and the one effective input is to stop making babies.  The supertanker analogy is also apt because it was oil that allowed us to get this far out on a limb, and peak oil has already happened.

Given the &#039;memeplexes&#039; of nation-state political-economic-religious institutions, no reduction in population is likely to occur from the top (at least not until it is far too late and the suffering, conflicts, starvation, disease, and social collapse can no longer be ignored.  If any kind of global population reduction is to occur is will need to occur &quot;memetically&quot; &#039;from the bottom up&#039;.   (Too bad Brad and Angelina didn&#039;t just adopt and decided to breed, too.)   

For a more comprehensive analysis of this I highly recommend Approaching the Limits www.paulchefurka.ca</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just wanted to add my support to your eloquently stated position.  I think the only thing I would add is a bit more of a sense of urgency.  </p>
<p>We’ve already exceed global carrying capacity. We are now in “overshoot”. Global population is nearing 7 billion. As you observe, global carrying capacity is about 2 billion. (This assumes some level of social justice and a moderate, low by US standards, standard of living.) We will get to that 2 billion number the hard way (wars, famine, disease, and their accompanying losses of environmental quality, freedom, and social justice) OR the less hard way (immediately and drastically reducing our population voluntarily).     </p>
<p>Yes,all of us, yes everywhere.   Yes a drop in population will cause problems, but none of those problems are as big as the problems, suffering, and environmental collapse that is certain to occur if we don’t.   </p>
<p>No technological / &#8220;alternative energy&#8221; options have the capacity or can be ramped up fast enough to avoid major global calamity. That isn&#8217;t to say we shouldn&#8217;t do them. Aggressively shifting to alternative energy is necessary, just not sufficient.</p>
<p>It’s also too late for any “us” vs “them” arguments or any belief that national boundaries will do much to help anyone in the long run. This is a global issue with local and nation-state consequences.  For example, immigration is a consequence of overpopulation, not a cause of it. Likewise global climate change is not impressed by national boundaries.   </p>
<p>One of the key factors in this scenario is also our sense of time. This is a slow motion crash that requires immediate action, a bit like trying to steer a supertanker on a crash course by putting in consistent input over a multi year time frame, and the one effective input is to stop making babies.  The supertanker analogy is also apt because it was oil that allowed us to get this far out on a limb, and peak oil has already happened.</p>
<p>Given the &#8216;memeplexes&#8217; of nation-state political-economic-religious institutions, no reduction in population is likely to occur from the top (at least not until it is far too late and the suffering, conflicts, starvation, disease, and social collapse can no longer be ignored.  If any kind of global population reduction is to occur is will need to occur &#8220;memetically&#8221; &#8216;from the bottom up&#8217;.   (Too bad Brad and Angelina didn&#8217;t just adopt and decided to breed, too.)   </p>
<p>For a more comprehensive analysis of this I highly recommend Approaching the Limits <a href="http://www.paulchefurka.ca" rel="nofollow">http://www.paulchefurka.ca</a></p>
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		<title>By: Cathouse Teri</title>
		<link>http://20-forty.com/2008/09/04/the-ethics-of-having-children-guest-post/comment-page-1/#comment-1048</link>
		<dc:creator>Cathouse Teri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 20:16:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://20-forty.com/?p=616#comment-1048</guid>
		<description>Indeed, it was a Levin reference?  :)  Was hoping you&#039;d catch it!  And as I said, you do make some great points that hopefully some people will comprehend and perhaps even put into action.  We can only do our little part.  I especially liked it when you said:  

&quot;For us, sex is still a means to an end-however, that end is connecting with each other, reinforcing our emotional, physical, and intellectual bond through the creation of moments that are shared with no other.&quot;

I would like to mention, though, that my boyfriend and I have no shortage of time to spend on nurturing that sort of connection.  I do have three grown children and three small grandchildren.  I am very involved in their lives, although they do not live nearby.  This does not seem to interfere with our ability to maintain our personal closeness, the BF and me.  But, as I said ~ those children are up and out on their own, raising their own.  The BF has never had children and doesn&#039;t want any.  Which makes him purrrrrrrrrrrrrrfect for me!  :)

Cathouse Teris last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://cathouseteri.blogspot.com/2008/09/voulez-vous-coucher-avec-moi.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Voulez-vous coucher avec moi?&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed, it was a Levin reference?  <img src='http://20-forty.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   Was hoping you&#8217;d catch it!  And as I said, you do make some great points that hopefully some people will comprehend and perhaps even put into action.  We can only do our little part.  I especially liked it when you said:  </p>
<p>&#8220;For us, sex is still a means to an end-however, that end is connecting with each other, reinforcing our emotional, physical, and intellectual bond through the creation of moments that are shared with no other.&#8221;</p>
<p>I would like to mention, though, that my boyfriend and I have no shortage of time to spend on nurturing that sort of connection.  I do have three grown children and three small grandchildren.  I am very involved in their lives, although they do not live nearby.  This does not seem to interfere with our ability to maintain our personal closeness, the BF and me.  But, as I said ~ those children are up and out on their own, raising their own.  The BF has never had children and doesn&#8217;t want any.  Which makes him purrrrrrrrrrrrrrfect for me!  <img src='http://20-forty.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Cathouse Teris last blog post..<a href="http://cathouseteri.blogspot.com/2008/09/voulez-vous-coucher-avec-moi.html" rel="nofollow">Voulez-vous coucher avec moi?</a></p>
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		<title>By: Honey</title>
		<link>http://20-forty.com/2008/09/04/the-ethics-of-having-children-guest-post/comment-page-1/#comment-1047</link>
		<dc:creator>Honey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 19:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://20-forty.com/?p=616#comment-1047</guid>
		<description>Cathouse Teri, is that an Ira Levin reference?  I&#039;ve read so many dystopian novels I mix them up sometimes, but I LOVED &quot;This Perfect Day&quot; ;-)  

Of course I know the plan I propose will never come to pass.  All I can do is make the choice for my own life that I find socially responsible, make my arguments public, and hope other people do the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cathouse Teri, is that an Ira Levin reference?  I&#8217;ve read so many dystopian novels I mix them up sometimes, but I LOVED &#8220;This Perfect Day&#8221; <img src='http://20-forty.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />   </p>
<p>Of course I know the plan I propose will never come to pass.  All I can do is make the choice for my own life that I find socially responsible, make my arguments public, and hope other people do the same.</p>
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