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Say Yes To Sex Before Commitment
By Lance
Here’s an age-old question I want to address: Should you have sex with your partner before or after establishing a committed relationship?
Since I’m the resident player around these parts, you can probably guess my answer. My answer is yup, sleep first, committed relationship after. It’s worthwhile for me to break it down.
My take is this
Sex is a major component of a serious relationship, and you won’t know if you’re compatible past a friendship level until you’ve had sex. Sexual compatibility is a dealmaker (or dealbreaker), and it’s putting the cart before the horse to get into a relationship without knowing. How many relationships have you been in, only to find out the sex sucked? Sexual incompatibilty destroys relationships. It’s a marriage killer. It drives families apart. Remember Charlotte and Trey in Sex and the City? Would they have gotten married if Charlotte knew she wasn’t going to be fulfilled? The answer is a resounding no. They were meant to be friends, nothing more.
One argument you’re going to hear is, well, we can always work on the sex. That shit doesn’t work. It just doesn’t, because the partners have different sexual values. She likes it slow, he wants it fast. She likes it dirty, he’s a Mr. Nice Guy. He’s into kink, she’s meat and potatoes. Those things don’t get fixed. They’re practically set in stone, because those values are part of the person’s overall personality. To change those values, you have to change the personality, and that’s too much to ask. The best thing you can do is move on and find a partner who you’re compatible with. Remember, this isn’t someone you’re sleeping with once or twice. This is someone you’re sleeping with for potentially the rest of your life. Those are high stakes.
I’m of the belief that sexual compatibility is rare and also that it’s the strongest indicator of a potentially successful relationship. Put another way, if the sex is great, it’s a good indicator the relationship will work. Further, if the sex is great, it’s a strong indicator of chemistry on a day-to-day basis. Not always, but it’s at least half the battle.
If you’re going to wait to have sex, which I’m against, hedge your bets by going to third base early and often and getting answers to the following:
- Do you enjoy sex?
- What’s your preferred frequency and intensity?
- Guys, how long do you last? Can you get it up again after the first shot?
- Gals, can you orgasm from penetration? If not, why not?
- Porn, yes or no?
- Anal, yes or no?
- Do you like oral, giving and receiving? Women, do you swallow?
- Talking dirty, yes or no?
- Are you dominant or submissive?
- What are your deep, dark fantasies?
- Do you have any gay tendencies? Are you bi?
- Multiple partners? Polyamory? Threesomes?
- Have you ever cheated?
- Masturbation frequency?
Those are just a smattering of questions I think are important and I’m sure you can think of a zillion more. I have to point out that conversing about sexual values is no substitute for the real thing. People lie, embellish, and tell you what you want to hear. You’ll only really know once you do the dirty deed.
My currrent model goes like this: date for 1-2 dates and somewhere in there have sex. Over the next 3-6 dates, have several extended sex sessions and suss out the sex values. After about that time I’ll know precisely if I’m compatible on all levels with a chick (emotional, social, intellectual, sexual) . I can sometimes figure it out even quicker if we spend a lot of time together early on. If it looks good, then start talking about the LTR. If I agreed to an LTR before I knew about the sex, I would be blowing smoke up her skirt to get to the sex, which I’ve done plenty of times before. It’s a bad mistake.
I dated a chick once who claimed she never masturbated or watched porn (age: 28). She also didn’t like being screwed hard. Seriously? When we finally had sex, it was awful. We weren’t even close to being compatible. This despite the fact that she was one of the top 3 best looking chicks I’ve ever dated. Thank goodness I found out before we went steady. It made moving on so much easier.
What’s your take?
You can learn more about Lance at http://honeyandlance.com/
lisaq August 28th, 2008, 6:14 am
Thanks for writing this Lance! You know I’m not a girl who’s normally not all about casual sex, but this definitely gives me a different perspective and some things to think about. I actually am currently in a situation with TDIB where this how things happened. It’s not at LTR status yet, but we’re still exploring!
lisaqs last blog post..Say Yes To Sex Before Commitment
saneandsingle August 28th, 2008, 7:14 am
I’ve tried it both ways. I’d rather have the relationship first. It makes for a more solid foundation.
saneandsingles last blog post..Sickness, Cabin Fever, and Loneliness
Lance August 28th, 2008, 8:12 am
There are pros and cons to both ways, actually. The con of waiting until the LTR to have sex is risking sexual incompatibility and sticking out a lengthy relationship when it’s going to end anyway because of bad sex. I’ve had that happen 4 times, at the cost of nearly 5 years of my life. I don’t at all consider this wasted time (all relationships are good experiences for me), but there were long stretches of lousy sex in there. That sucks.
The pro of waiting is a reduced risk of disease and a solid foundation, as you say, although I think that’s a bit debatable.
The pro of fast sex is, well, fast sex! Immediate pleasure. The con is higher risk of disease and, if you consider this a negative, having and being a disposable partner. Most people hate being disposable. I’ve come to terms with it and don’t mind it at all now. To be quite honest, I think love is highly replaceable and we’re all disposable. Not very romantic, but it gets me through my day after I get dumped, blown out, or flaked on.
saneandsingle August 28th, 2008, 8:46 am
I agree that we and love are replacable. I guess that having sex too early (in my experience) often leads to purely sexual relationships. According to your model (sex after a couple dates), I’m not even sure I like the man enough as a person to even consider a relationship. I want to know more about the person on a deeper (beyond sexual compatibility) level before bumping dirties! LOL If I can’t even be friends with a guy, I sure as hell can’t have a relationship with him. Then, either I’ve just added another notch or entered into yet another FB situation!
saneandsingles last blog post..Sickness, Cabin Fever, and Loneliness
Lance August 28th, 2008, 8:49 am
@saneandsingle: That’s cool. It’s way easier for me to become friends with someone after I’ve slept with them, rather than become friends and then try to grow sexually. In fact, after I’ve slept with someone, I insist on at least being friends.
Brad K. August 28th, 2008, 9:25 am
Lance,
This is a tough one. I still feel that I would be disrespectful of a lady to reject an invitation for sexual intercourse. And yet..
For those that wait, they go to bed with a partner.
Those that are getting acquainted and evaluating, go to bed with a *visitor*. For one or the other, or both, their sexual performance, or their body language in intimate action, or an unfortunate word may get the invitation for a ‘next time’ withdrawn, canceled, or extended.
Sex with a visitor will almost always be more ephemeral, more adventuresome as the combination of risk and abandonment to the moment play out. Excitement means there is a risk, and element of danger. The ‘before’ sex will have a higher potential for excitement. And that can be good, to have those moments of delight to recall as the LTR matures and waxes and wanes in satisfaction.
For those that wait, the sexual excitement (element of risk) and turmoil and doubts will often be more subdued - and more dependable. If you choose a mate for their spirit, their character, their interest in you, then the sex will be more than acceptable. If a partner is interested, their body language will reveal whether they are comfortable with their body, with physical stimulation (such as free movement, dance, physical closeness). You don’t need penetration to pick up on lack of self-awareness or self acceptance.
If you mean a girl is attractive because of makeup, manner of dress or movement, then I understand your dilemma. If you mean she is attractive because of her inner joy (her smile), her honesty, her discipline, her compassion and generosity, then I guess it wouldn’t matter as much if you waited - except she will want to be sure your character is impeccable, your interest in life runs toward LTR or family, before she climbs into the rack with you.
I grew up with neighbors that hung “Kissin’ Don’t Last / Cookin’ Do” trivets hanging on the kitchen wall. That is, that making a home is different than a hot date. Dates end.
kira August 28th, 2008, 10:52 am
Lance, I think you just may be a genius.
I am currently in a sex before commitment situation and found the points you made to be, well, insightful. Honestly, we had sex the first night we met and it was absolutely incredible. We were essentially strangers, true, but it made the sex a lot less inhibited because there were no expectations. Now we are working on the rest while still enjoying and indulging in the physical aspects.
I do have to agree with saneandsingle and brad, however, that it can be a tough situation and isn’t the right route for everyone. Some have deep religious beliefs that would not allow a sex before commitment type situation and others whose emotions simply can’t let them. It goes back to women associating sex with emotion and men being able to leave emotion out of the equation.
Overall, I am standing up out of my seat and cheering you on wildly for this one! Kudos and thanks!
craze August 28th, 2008, 12:37 pm
In my experience (and let me say I’m 42 I’ve had some experience) xex before a relationship has never worked out for me. I think I’d prefer somewhere in the middle. Right now, if I’m dating, I’m not having sex before date 4 or 5. We don’t necessarily have to be “in a relationship” to have sex but I’d like to get to know the person a little bit before I do.
crazes last blog post..A lil’ about me
Honey August 28th, 2008, 3:14 pm
I think that one of the pros to having sex before being committed is that sexual tension is a real mind-clouder. If you’ve got all this sexual tension flying around then it’s going to be even harder to listen to what they’re saying about *non-sexual* things. If you have sex right away you can not only suss out whether you’re compatible on that level, it gets you to a place sooner where you can see if they are being honest and forthcoming about other aspects of their character.
Brad, you said, “If you choose a mate for their spirit, their character, their interest in you, then the sex will be more than acceptable.” THIS IS ABSOLUTELY FALSE, and IMO it is thinking like this that gets people a year or two into a LTR (or a marriage) only to lead to a nasty breakup and/or divorce. You choose friends based on their spirit, character, and interest in you. You choose a mate based on their spirit, character, interest in you, and sexual compatibility. To pretend otherwise is to fall in love with someone who will never make you happy, which isn’t fair to ANYONE.
That being said, I have two additional points:
(1) as I’ve mentioned before, I slept with the BF on the first date and we have worked out amazing. I also slept with other folks on the first date to have it work out horribly. That’s the risk you take. I have also waited with folks and waiting has had no appreciable effect on length/quality of relationships (that is, the relationships where I waited first weren’t any longer or better than the relationships where I didn’t…only the time period where I wasn’t getting laid was longer. Sucky). However, although I’m not opposed to having sex right away as a screening tool like Lance suggests, sex is SO MUCH BETTER once you are in love and secure that if I were ever single again this would be tough for me to live by. However, it also means that if the sex is fantastic in the beginning, it will be MIND-BLOWING as your relationship progresses.
(2) Differences in financial/money values and habits break up FAR more marriages than sexual differences do. Ironically (and unfortunately) this is considered by many to be a far more inappropriate topic until it’s too late–to find out that the person you’re in love with is a financial disaster when you’re 2.5 years in (or, heaven forbid, already married) is FAR worse, IMO, then waiting 3 or 6 months only to find out they suck in bed.
Lance August 28th, 2008, 4:43 pm
@Honey: Excellent, I have to agree on both counts. Really what I’m talking about is fast sex as a screening tool, although I don’t mean it to sound so clinical. Your point about sexual tension is spot on. Many of the PUA’s talk about this. Once you’re had sex with someone, it’s much easier to get to a point of true honesty and openness, whereas if you’re courting one another sans sex, the tendency is to throw up a smoke to continue to qualify yourself. The less emotionally intelligent you are, the more problematic this is.
With my long distance FB, we had sex only a few hours after meeting, and we were able to have intimate, comfortable conversations right away, whereas this would have been impossible if we were dating.
@Brad: I like what you’re saying, but my thing is fast or slow sex doesn’t really change the intrinsic quality of the sex. if you’re sexually compatible, the sex is guaranteed to be good, and you want to ascertain that compatibility as quickly as possible.
lisaq August 29th, 2008, 5:57 am
Nicely done Lance. Lots of interesting comments. I can see both sides of the coin here and I especially like your response to BradK’s comment. I probably fall more in line with Craze. Not necessarily waiting until a relationship is set but not having sex immediately either. That has never worked for me. Of course, with TDIB, we only waited until the 2nd date and the jury’s still out!
lisaqs last blog post..Men’s Rules for Women
auntiegwen August 29th, 2008, 9:27 am
Would I get my desert before being asked all the questions ?
auntiegwens last blog post..auntiegwen goes to Dublin
Nicholas Aretakis October 3rd, 2008, 8:35 am
I’m a little late to this party, and not passing judgment on people that engage in intimacy before there is an established relationship, I just offer caution, particularly to women, ensuring that minimum standards are met before making the leap from casual dating to carnal relations. Let’s face it, no one want to be connected with a guy that turns out to be a really bad person, it can be a real setback on future, better prospects.
The Hot Prospect Background Check
• Make sure he isn’t a convicted felon or sex offender by searching computerized data bases or the local county courthouse
• Make sure he is not married or in another (supposedly) committed relationship (see “The Disengagement Partier”)
• Gain some insight into past relationships:
o How long did they last?
o When did his last relationship end?
o Was the break-up amicable?
o Is he over the relationship?
o Do they remain in contact?
• Check references:
o Find someone credible who knows him fairly well and mention you’ve gone out with so-and-so. Gauge the associate’s reaction. Does he wince or make derogatory comments about The Hot Prospect’s character or how he treats women?
• Learn what he does for a living. Is it something respectable, or something he feels he has to hide? (see “Ditch Him If” advice in Profile 1: The Mystery Man)
• Find out his basic religious belief and politics.
o Is he a member of a highly controversial religious sect or a political party?
• Learn a little about his friends, family, and colleagues, spending time with them if possible.
o Is he involved in a gang?
o Are his friends or family serving time in prison or under investigation?
Law enforcement officials frequently target girlfriends. If he is selling drugs or involved in other criminal activity, you could be seen as an associate.
It’s not easy to wait, and the homework the “Hot Prospect Background Check” entails can be challenging as well. But waiting is worth it.
http://www.DitchingMrWrong.com